Talk:Rules/Skills

Only prob i see is the cha skills. Try this instead:

Diplomacy [Diplomacy, Intimidate]

Perform [Perform, Gather Information] AKA Work the crowd

Ledgermain [Sleight of Hand, Escape Artist]

Go out of town for a few days and all goes amok. --Arz 16:05, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I still say an empathy [heal, sense motive] skill set is a good combination since both skills don't come up often enough to be singled out. That, and the nameset also fits well. --Askewnotion 16:19, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Me too ;) --Mqs 17:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Ledgermain above. --Randy (Talk) 16:52, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I also. Shall we? --Mqs 17:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The problem with merging Dipl. and Intim. is that they truly are very different. Both are cha-based social skills, but being good at one and the other are pretty much mutually exclusive. I understand, also, your desire for Perform + Gather Information. Randy, how do you feel about that one? Gather Information fits soundly with both. --Mqs 17:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Performing is to talking to a crowd, while gathering information is talking with people. I think that it's a better fit with Diplomacy. --Randy (Talk) 17:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

A series of people, however, as Mike puts it. I do prefer it with Dipl. --Mqs 17:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Diplo-timidate is mostly interpersonal v. group exhortation ala perform-ation. Gather info is not dealing with strictly one person, but more often a series and some small groups. I can safely say I will not be 100% satisfied with all the combos. Heck perform/gather isn't perfect, just closer. --Arz 15:48, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Based on this conversation, might I suggest making a Streetwise skill? Combine Sense Motive and Gather Information?

WIS vs CHA. --Mqs 16:11, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Bah. All social skills should be CHA. It would simplify things at least. In any case, with that in mind, I think putting Diplomacy and Gather Information makes more sense than Perform and Gather Information. I still think all social skills should be CHA. --T3knomanser 16:54, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Sense Motive is the perfect Wisdom (intuition) skill. --Mqs 16:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Depends on your perspective. One could argue that it's less about intuition and more about detecting subtle social cues. To me, that makes more sense. I've always seen WIS more as practical application of knowledge and INT as book learnin'. Also, looking at your combinations, I just noticed that you've combined a few other skills regardless of their attribute linkage. Ride(DEX)/Handle Animal(CHA); Survival(WIS)/Use Rope(DEX). So one could make the argument that Sense Motive/Gather Information could be combined into Streetwise. And then one could have a separate argument about whether they should be CHA or WIS skills, since gathering information could be seen as WIS related as well as CHA related, if you take the stance that it's about intuitive synthesis of information. --T3knomanser 16:54, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

You make many valid points, and have convinced me. Randy? Others? --Mqs 17:09, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I am convinced. Make Streetwise happen. Since Diplomacy is losing Gather Info, should Diplomacy and Intimidate be merged? I'm on the fence about that, but I wanted the opinion of others. --Randy (Talk) 17:30, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Depends. Do you think Diplomacy needs to cover more terrain to remain useful? Diplomacy is about getting people to do what you want by offering them a carrot; intimidate is about offering them the stick. A successful diplomat needs to be able to do both, but in game terms, intimidate is more about looking scary. --T3knomanser 17:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

In game terms, both use force of personality (CHA) to effect behavior changes on people so I think that merging makes sense. --Randy (Talk) 18:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Influence and Streetwise in there. Heal is still the bastard child. Is there anything that can be done with at? Extra uses of the skill? --Mqs 18:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

It could fit under Survival maybe, but that would be crowding it too much, I think. I think though that Heal could be renamed "Medicine" and cover any medical knowledge. That would allow it to be used, say, with trap making: it could boost the damage from traps. It could also be used to get a few extra points from a Cure spell- you're better able to direct the magic.

I've been considering giving Heal the following abilities:

Convert Wounds, As a standard action a DC15 (or 20) Heal check can be made to convert 1d6 lethal damage to nonlethal damage, with an extra 1d6 gained for every five points over DC15 (or 20). This may only be used on a recipient once a day.

Refresh As a standard action the Heal skill may be used to regain 1d8 hit points with a successful DC15 Heal check. This may be used once a day.

Those are my raw thoughts. --Randy (Talk) 18:38, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

A caster with 5 or more ranks in Heal can, when casting a conjuration (healing) spell, choose to remove any one of the following conditions affecting the subject of the spell, in addition to the spell’s normal effects: dazed, dazzled, or fatigued. A caster with 10 or more ranks in Heal can choose from the following conditions in addition to those above: exhausted, nauseated, or sickened. Also, when determining the amount of damage healed by your conjuration (healing) spells, you can substitute your total ranks in Heal for your caster level. The normal caster level limit for individual spells still applies; thus, a 3rd-level cleric with 6 ranks in Heal when under the effect of healing lorecall cures 1d8+5 points of damage with a cure light wounds spell.

From Healing Lorecall (SPC). Randy and I propose adding DCs to the following for heal check to remove. What action would this be? Standard? Full Round? Minutes?

• Dazed
• Dazzled
• Fatigued
• Exhausted
• Nauseated
• Sickened

--Mqs 19:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I recommend DC 20 for the first three, 25 for the latter three. Each would be a full round action that provokes an AOO. A heal check could, as a non-combat action (1 minute+), heal a heal check in HP, but costs "herbs and the like" consuming X GP per HP [per HD?] in gold. --Mqs 19:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

For actions, I recommend the first three be full round actions. Consider a boxer in the corner getting refreshed and having his fatigue removed. The last three should take 10 minutes, reserving them for out of combat. --Randy (Talk) 19:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Nauseated and sickened almost never happen outside of combat. --Mqs 20:10, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think fatigued should be fixable inside of combat. It should take a long time to fix, in part because you definitely need at least some rest. Since exhausted reduces to fatigued with only an hour's worth of rest, I would say that should be a full round action. Fixing fatigued should take longer- 10 minutes. I would add that, for all of these, they require material components in the form of herbs and salves. Cheap, but there. --T3knomanser 21:28, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Knowledge Religion's synergy with Turning Undead

Should 5 ranks in Religion still grant +2 to turning checks, now that synergy bonuses are eliminated? --Randy (Talk) 01:23, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I would say this would disappear, as would Animals applying a bonus to Animal Empathy checks. However, with Rich's alternate rules (allowing any skill check to be roleplayed to add to circumstance modifiers anything else), it's still there. --Mqs 01:56, 14 January 2009 (UTC)